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Build talk:N/any Blood Support
An elite skill would be good. Rupert=Hawt 20:29{GMT}5-06-MMVIII :Woops meant Well of Power > Well of Blood-- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:31, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::Don't bring Rift. --image:GoD Wario Sig.JPG*[[user talk:Guild of Deals|'Wah']] Wah!* 16:30, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::BR is pretty okay. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:31, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::Blood Ritual? Rupert=Hawt 20:32{GMT}5-06-MMVIII ::::good call -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:32, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::(EC)^ But it's a filler, mostly. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:33, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::Yeap, Spirit Rift was crap anyway -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:33, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::BR's a pretty good skill. This does have a little overkill on energy support though (Well of Power and BR?). Still, it does provide practically all-line energy. --image:GoD Wario Sig.JPG*[[user talk:Guild of Deals|'Wah']] Wah!* 16:35, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::::BR on whoever needs it most and WoP on the rest. Infinite energy :D ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:37, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::::Correct, should I throw this right into testing then? -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:39, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::I'd give it a decent vote, so sure. --image:GoD Wario Sig.JPG*[[user talk:Guild of Deals|'Wah']] Wah!* 16:39, 5 June 2008 (EDT) How about Orders? Might be a variant, with OoP and Dark Fury instead of GDW and FH ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:41, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :And Masochism for SoLS. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:41, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::I'll put it in variants, it's kinda straying a bit away from what I was intending -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:42, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::And Masochism isnt really necessary seeing as how much energy you're going to have already -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:43, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::If you have a 1 energy saccing skill and Masochism, you can practically have freaking infinite energy. Also, Orders wouldn't seem bad. Eh? --image:GoD Wario Sig.JPG*[[user talk:Guild of Deals|'Wah']] Wah!* 16:45, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :I give in, you win -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:49, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::Make it a variant. Well of Power is better, imo. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:54, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::Nao it's too close to Build:N/Rt_Weapon_Orders. -Mike 16:55, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::Yeah, it really is, I'm putting it back to Well of Power -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 16:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::Also, I'd go for 12 in Blood Magic and 10 in Channeling Magic because of Splinter Weapon's breakpoint in attacks affected. -Mike 16:58, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::Nahh, it doesn't really do anything for Blood Magic except lengthen WoP a bit, but it hurts Ancestor's Rage, which is only at 89 damage per go anyway so -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 17:01, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::Ancestor's Rage won't actually be doing much in PvE when the ALs of the monsters are high, anyway. -Mike 17:04, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::::A lot times low equals high. Brandnew. 17:05, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::::lolwut? not this time -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 17:06, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::Mob of ~6/7 around your tank, 6/7 times low damage equals high damage, I am right. I hope. Brandnew. 17:07, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::Yeah, but 6 or 7 around your tank with high damage equals even higher damage, i dont really know what your saying TBH -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 17:10, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::::Check mikes comment. Brandnew. 17:12, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::::Ahh I see your point now, I was just kinda confused. I would still rather keep it how it is though anyway. -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 17:20, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::::::I agree with you. he was wrong Brandnew. 17:23, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::::::Even when you add up all the Ancestor's Rages, it won't do shit against Destroyers. XD Ancestor's Rage is good in PvP and low-level PvE, but once you hit the level 28s, that 11 armor-affected AoE damage per second from A-Rage will result in less than 4 AoE DPS. I'm not saying to remove it, but it won't be worth it against high-armored foes. -Mike 17:43, 5 June 2008 (EDT) Needs a better elite, Dark Fury for ARage, and drop the Major Blood rune since it is seriously does nothing for the two blood skills on that bar. Racthoh 17:46, 5 June 2008 (EDT) I herd that you should vote -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 17:40, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :Featured it for you. [[User:Godliest|'God']][[User_talk:Godliest|'box']] 19px 17:49, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :: <3 u -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 17:52, 5 June 2008 (EDT) Imo, you should drop channeling to 10 and raise blood to 12+1+1. Either that or go to 11-10-10. 10 channeling is all that you should ever need since its the breakpoint for 4 hits. --- [[User:Ressmonkey|'Ressmonkey']] [[User Talk:Ressmonkey|(talk)]] 18:28, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :fixed, thanks! -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 18:47, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::The six extra damage per splinter hit is stronger than the extra two health a second from Well of Power and the extra one energy from Blood Ritual. Racthoh 18:48, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::I was thinking the same thing Ractoh, a lot of people wanted that change though too -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 18:49, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::::It could go either way I guess, it is PvE after all. Blood Ritual and Well of Power are certainly two skills that do not need 14 Blood Magic to function at a decent level however. The difference between a 14 specced Blood Ritual and a 4 spec is 4 energy, not even enough for any non-saccing spell in the game. You use Well of Power over Well of Blood because it has energy regeneration, it doesn't make sense to pump extra attribute points into a skill to buff the non-primary aspect. True the same can be said for Splinter Weapon since the # of hits is arguably more useful than a minor increase in damage, but in this situation the difference weighs in favor of that minor damage bonus and not the breakpoints. Racthoh 19:03, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :::::Agreed -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 19:09, 5 June 2008 (EDT) Needs energy management (unless you has a bip on your team) and a hard res for PvE (like flesh!) -- ''Bim'' (talk| ) 20:47, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :Hope you're kidding. Well of Power says hi. -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 22:28, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :Also needs Order of Pain for more pew pew. -Mike 20:57, 5 June 2008 (EDT) i like double wells ... you get the full +10 regen bar Epichammer 09:25, 15 December 2008 (EST) Make hero friendly prof=Necromancer/Ritualist Bloodmagic=12+1+1 SoulReaping=8+1 Channeling=10 rest=2of Powerof painFuryRitualweaponrageof Lost Soulspac/build Is good no?-- [[User:Relyk|'RELYK' ]] ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ 22:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT) :I'll add to variants for a hero -- [[User:Angelus...|'Angelus']] 22:59, 5 June 2008 (EDT) ::Ancestor's Rage spot could be put to better use. 75 lightning damage every 8 seconds is a little weak. I'd play with the spot and if energy is tight consider Masochism, possibly Foul Feast for condition heavy areas. There isn't much else decent that blood/channeling/SR has to offer sadly. Racthoh 23:15, 5 June 2008 (EDT) Problem I've had with Masochism is I seem to have to manage it myself, when the battle gets going the hero seems to forget about it once it ends and just spams everything else vs say the Orders Derv who always puts up Zeal. Foul Feast however I feel is always a great option with removing conditions and providing some energy and health to boot.(75.134.131.172 00:29, 15 June 2008 (EDT)) Well Of Power Well Of Power is not an elite that should be main barred for a few reasons. *Party composition. In a melee heavy party where your physicals have built in energy management (dervishes or assassins) or adrenaline (warriors) then the energy regeneration of Well of Power is unnecessary. In which case Blood Ritual (already on the bar) is sufficient to fuel the few casters in the group. Given that this bar has Splinter Weapon, Order of Pain and Dark Fury it's a safe assumption to make that the build is catered towards a physical crowd. This leads to the second point. *Corpse location. As this build caters to a physical heavy party consider where the bodies of your enemies are going to land for that first Well of Power. Odds are your casters are not standing where your melees have just killed an enemy forcing your mid and back lines to push up to reap the benefits of your elite. Positioning is always important and shouldn't be sacrificed just to make a skill or tactic work. *Enemy makeup/size. In a zone with smaller groups of enemies wells are often wasted. You'll have dispatched the mob well before the well has expired. It's a waste. Compared to an area like Urgoz's Warren with large mobs that take quite a while to kill. Generally speaking you should be getting a lot of mileage out of your elite, if mob composition is too small that fights are over as soon as they begin then skills such as wells are a waste. The other factor to consider is the enemy's professions, which also ties in with corpse location. Will you consistently be up against enemies that will die close to someone who needs a well? A warrior enemy will more than likely positionally die better than an elementalist enemy, simply because it was probably chasing your own casters. I run a build like this one on my necromancer heroes, but only for areas with large group compositions where I'm expecting longer fights. Well of Power is very strong in those situations as a result because its full duration is being put to use. In any situation where I'm moving onto a new group of enemies with the first well still going from the previous mob then my elite could be put to better use. If that is a consistent occurrence, even in potential wipe scenarios, take a second look at your elite options (as limited as blood/channeling/SR may be). Racthoh 02:16, 6 June 2008 (EDT) :There aren't really any other Elites that haven't already been used in the Orders builds, so if you put in BiP or Order of the Vampire, it'll be a dupe. -Mike 07:20, 6 June 2008 (EDT) ::Which hardly justifies why this build should be created. It's like stating that we got monk builds around all the good elites, so now we have to create ones around the bad ones. [[User:Godliest|'God']][[User_talk:Godliest|'box']] 19px 07:28, 6 June 2008 (EDT) :::Its hero, so it isnt bad.-- [[User:Relyk|'RELYK' ]] ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ 22:31, 9 July 2008 (EDT) :Well, the only location that Well of Power is useful is in that one where you have less energy regneration and your skills cost more to use. The Domain of Somethingorother. Otherwise, this is pretty useless. —ǥrɩɳsɧƴɖɩđđɭɘş 23:48, 10 August 2008 (EDT) ::Even then, there's BiP. The regen isn't that great, either. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 23:52, 10 August 2008 (EDT) Seriously updated the build and subsequently votewiped. - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 12:03, March 31, 2010 (UTC) :As good as utility bars like this are, the first three mainbar skills aren't really vital. Orders probably are, though. Dok 23:12, March 31, 2010 (UTC) ::This can be modded to suited any specified Hard-Mode/Anti-Boss situations while still contributing for general-purpose dungeons and explorable areas. Under the current meta, most Orders-builds are perform better on Dervish/Elementalist primaries; unlike those two, this allows for versatile build configurations. It dont necessarily need orders to perform well, especially when used within an all Caster-party. It can even change its Elite to use ''Order of the Vampire if within an all Martial-party (Dervish & Elementalists elites cant change) and still have 2 extra slots for utilites (like Frozen Soil). --Falconeye 06:34, April 1, 2010 (UTC) :::I get that it's a versatile build, but I can't imagine the mainbar skills are superior to those of an SoS rit, a SS necro, or a RoJ monk, and those all have room for utility skills, like this build does. Dok 16:52, April 1, 2010 (UTC) :::Wait, why would you run this in a party composed of only casters? Dok 04:21, April 14, 2010 (UTC) ;Slavers Exile Variant :An example of what variants my teammates/heroes use when not running the standard bar. --Falconeye 06:34, April 1, 2010 (UTC) ::Added barbed signet to make sure oppressive gaze triggers --(Talk) 11:22, April 2, 2010 (UTC) The build's fucked up now. I propose: prof=N/Mo BloodMagic=11+1+3 SmitingPrayers=11 SoulReaping=8+1of Lost Soulsof the VampireOptionalOptionalHexConditionFeastof Honor/build * [Gaze@15 * [Bond@15 * [of Fury@15 * [Ritual@15 * [Hexes@3 * [Intervention@11 for Minions. * [Enchantment@15 * [Rebirth@3 Of course, you could go /Rt, dip into Curses, Protection Prayers, etc. but this build can easily manage SoH on 3 allies (if somehow you have a team with 3 melee), unlike most others that have an open secondary and a few open slots. Ranger secondary and Spoil Victor are too area-specific, while Blood is Power (anything more than Blood Ritual is stupid, not worth the slot, run N/Rts), Ravenous Gaze (long recharge) and Well of Power (doesn't work well in practice because your backline will rarely benefit from it). The two main issues I have with the above build is that Order of the Vampire won't benefit from Asuran Scan, and that OotV won't be maintainable unless you halve its casting time. You've got all of the necessary Condition removal, you can manage any Hexes if you take Convert Hexes, and you give 36 damage per attack. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 15:53, April 2, 2010 (UTC) :...but that's a completely different bar/idea..... OotV is bad compared to OoP. - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 16:10, April 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Well, now that all of your Elite choices suck, you might as well run a E/N Hero with Blood Magic and Curses. >.> [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.]][[user_talk:St. Michael|мıкε']] 16:19, April 2, 2010 (UTC) :::What is wrong with it now? ravenous is a great skill and sv is used all over the place (see 2 man necroway). I dont even know why i've left OoV up (giving people choice, i suppose), something like OoP + Ravenous would does much better - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 22:51, April 2, 2010 (UTC) ::::Ya, you're right about OotV (although it's like OoP+Blood Bond, as long as no one runs Asuran Scan), but Ravenous Gaze only manages 6 DPS, albeit to your target and nearby foes, but still 6 DPS. Discord does 30 DPS, for comparison. So, unless you hit 5 foes every use, Discord>Ravenous. Of course, they're different attributes. Also, 2 Man Necroway is in Good now. Spoil Victor, like Spiteful Spirit, has great potential in HM, but because your Heroes are probably going to target one monster at a time, they'll never be used to maximum effect. If you can get SV to trigger at least twice, then it'll deal the same damage (per second) as Ravenous Gaze on 3 foes. I don't even care for Discord, and would rather run an SoS Rit with Bloodsong and Painful Bond for 90 DPS. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.]][[user_talk:St. Michael|мıкε']] 23:27, April 2, 2010 (UTC) :::::If the above posted build were to be mainbar'ed, it'd quickly be WELLed due to ''Discord Smite Necro. Every profession plays differently. Its called Blood Support Hero for a reason. The idea is to allow the AI's superior micromanaging 90% of repitition/utilities skills in order to allow you (the player) to freely perform 90% of the killing using PvE-builds with deadly efficiency that no hero can ever hope to match (discord or not). --Falconeye 06:02, April 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::also you cant quote dps when two of those are vs. single foe whilst the third build is aoe (manly spike is technically terrible if you quote single foe dps). Discord isnt effective if you dont create a build around it (because of the two conditions which you need to satisfy before actually doing damage) so you cant make a straight comparison. ravenous is 1 cheap aoe skill whilst discord take up half your teams attribute points and instantly makes the player build boring as hell. - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 09:00, April 3, 2010 (UTC) Oh my If you are just running mark then you will only apply weakness to ONE enemy which makes oppressive very sucky compared to lets say enfeebling blood, therefore I really think you need barbed signet to cause AoE weakness...also is marked really worthy of mainbar? --(Talk) 19:06, April 2, 2010 (UTC) :None of the skills on that bar except SoLS are worthy of mainbar. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.]][[user_talk:St. Michael|мıкε']] 19:35, April 2, 2010 (UTC) ::i'd disagree, most parties are full of conditions already, tho mark is more specifically melee support so i'll drag into optionals. if you're not running blood bond, you're really, really missing the point of using blood magic. Also people only take 3 monks/healers in HM teams because the two hench cant manage energy whatsoever, its pretty obvious why br is there. - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 22:47, April 2, 2010 (UTC) :::I can understand the "ooooo buffed skills" hype, but is it rational in this case? Vigorous Spirit isn't even mentioned in Build:N/Mo_SoLS_WoH_Hybrid, Build:Mo/any_WoH_Hybrid nor Build:Mo/E_GoLE_Healer's_Boon_Healer, and the only difference when all of your team is targeting the same monster (or at least monsters adjacent to it) is the end heal. Is that end heal what makes Blood Bond "''amazing", is Vigorous Spirit underrated or is the hype unfounded? I like Vigorous Spirit, and now that I've realized that your H/H will target the same monster as you (at least if you call, iirc), Blood Bond, too. However, all of the 2 Man Hero Team builds I've seen are comprised only of caster Heroes, so only the two players (if they're both physicals) would really benefit from Blood Bond. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 00:04, April 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::Oh, and, of course, Vigorous Spirit heals even when your attacks fail to hit, and triggers on Spells. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 00:50, April 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::Sprits, Minions and everyone else benefits from Blood Bonds healing. Caster/ranged heroes have proven to be easier to control and less suicidal then martial/melee heroes. Correted Vigorous Spirit oversight. --Falconeye 06:16, April 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::yeah, you're missing the point of bbond. It isnt for the vig spirit like effect (that's just a bonus) but the +95 healing adjacent allies get once a foe is dead. This benefits frontliners and minions but also takes a reasonable amount of pressure off the monks. - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 09:06, April 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Yes I think Blood bond is a cheap way of healing your frontliners, it's worthy of mainbar and thanks for Barbed signet that was all I really wanted --(Talk) 11:36, April 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I do wonder, why not a general tag? --(Talk) 11:37, April 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Minions are ''supposed to die. Heroes also have great reflexes, so if a frontliner has taken 100 damage, I'd assume that they'd heal them before Blood Bond can. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 23:27, April 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Not every MM is a bomber. Army style MMs keep up a force of fiends and horrors and then amplify the minions damage with skills like order of undeath, barbs, and mark of pain. The horrors in particular are also used to body block and absorb damage, and blood bond really helps them out in that role. Necromas 04:41, April 14, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::The only other MM worth running is OoU, but you generally wouldn't run that on your Heroes. MM Bomber Heroes (not always with Jagged Bones, though) end up in most PvE Team builds, tbh. Also, Bone Minions are capable of body blocking, too. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 11:08, April 14, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::If you want to keep fiends alive, though, you wouldn't have them bodyblocking, and they wouldn't be able to take advantage of blood bond's secondary heal. I really don't know why you'd run Bone horrors. Fiends or minion bombs, imo. Dok 14:59, April 14, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::I think he meant vamp horrors with fiends for the OoU build. 15:57, April 23, 2010 (UTC)